Welcome to the dumbest timeline.
We go through the dumbest timeline.
Is this truly the dumbest timeline?
And we're back with the
second part of this
fantastic conversation with
Slaka the Beat Child.
If you thought I was excited
about last week,
you can only imagine what
it's like to talk to a
music producer about the
use of AI in music.
And you all heard how much
Slaka also appreciates AI
and finds it interesting
and finds it useful.
So when we start talking
about AI as it pertains to
music and music production,
Whenever I talk to a creative,
I never know exactly what
direction or how they're
going to feel about it.
But this conversation was
great because he put me
onto some ideas that I just
didn't even think about the
way he explained it.
So I'm going to let you get to it.
Enjoy.
And I'll be back at the end
of the episode.
And I say that because
specifically as a music producer,
this is where I wanted to also lead.
How do you feel about things like,
and I don't know if you've seen them,
but you've probably heard of them.
Things like UDO and Suno AI,
where people can go on, type in a prompt,
type in kind of a style and
a song pops out and.
what does that mean to
someone like you who's been
doing this for 20 years is
one of the most talented
producers I personally know
and love listening to your
stuff but I i can imagine
and I did this test in the
second episode where you
can take someone's music
and if the ai site doesn't
have the recognition if it
doesn't recognize that
particular track you can
upload someone's track and
tell it to remix it and pop
out your own version of it
So what does that,
because we both like the tech,
but here it is coming up
against what you do professionally.
Yeah, absolutely.
So whenever it comes to this topic,
I try to think of the horse
and carriage and the combustion engine.
Okay.
Right?
Like when the combustion engine came about,
people who sold horses said,
They were scared.
They're like, what is this new tech?
No, like horses are stronger.
Horses are stronger.
They're more reliable.
They're not loud.
Like, no.
So I don't think anyone in
that era thought that
horses would one day be relevant.
Right.
Things do change in tech and
in transportation.
They changed.
I still am of the kind of
thought that this new tech
that we're experiencing,
you can't let it scare you.
The moment fear kind of
dominates your thought process,
you're already losing.
Because they're tools at the
end of the day.
And if I can find a way to
use these tools to increase
productivity or creativity in what I do,
then I'm adapting to the
change because it's not
going to stop the change is
going to happen I just need
to find a way to leverage
it to benefit me right and
what I do and that's what
I've been doing like I i
have used um kits ai for
voice cloning in demos that
I do oh cool you said yudio
not you do I haven't used
yudio yudio that does the
music yeah yudio and suno
are the two that yeah yeah
I've I've tried both of
them and um I I'm not I'm not a fan
I'm not a fan in that my
first problem is that
they're training on music
that they don't have
permission to train on.
Right.
Which is why there's the lawsuit, right?
Exactly.
Yeah.
I think that's 100% unethical to do.
Because when I hear prompts,
when I hear the music, I'm like,
I can hear like four
different artists and recordings.
Like I can hear the recordings.
Yeah,
I almost wish I could play something
for you because I realize
for you who's been studying music,
because some people like to
play the devil's advocate and say,
well a person listens to
music and trains and then
makes music and you know
they're influenced by the
things isn't it doing the
same thing and I'm like no
obviously not because it's
learns the entire catalog
of a artist in an hour and
that's not the same thing
as someone who spends their
life and also the idea that
you when listening to
something created by an ai
music creation site like
udio or suno or any other
you can hear the different elements
From the different artists, yeah.
Totally, totally.
So on one side,
I think that it's not ethical,
but this gets interesting
where a new way of thinking
kind of comes into play.
So what if we accepted that
AI can freely be trained on
whatever is accessible,
but there is industry-based
universal income?
oh oh sir okay you're gonna
get people mad now I i I i
am with like I get what
you're saying right you are
you are okay you're putting
it into a situation where
it's just like listen you
guys want to do it this way
cool but make sure everyone
can live that's exactly
what you're saying yeah and
that and it's only an
industry so industry based
right industry based so if you are uh
how you regulate it and how you govern it.
I haven't thought of that yet.
But think of in the music industry,
you get royalties.
You get royalties based on tariffs.
There's so many different
types of royalties that you
can get based on some music
being reproduced.
And millions and millions
get collected for these
tariffs and royalties.
I think there's going to be another tier.
where it's like there's the AI tariff.
And so any company who's
profiting off of music has
to pay a tariff.
And that just becomes a royalty base,
right?
And I wish it was advanced
to the point where... And I
think maybe with future technology,
blockchain stuff, I don't understand.
Maybe it can log what's
being used more or less.
And then that can be it, right?
I don't know.
Or it's prompt-based.
So if a user is like,
I want something that
sounds like bchild mixed with blah, blah,
blah.
If my name is used in a search,
then I get a royalty.
Oh, man.
Wow.
This is such an interesting concept.
I like the idea that I'm picturing,
you know,
this kind of spherical
percentage calculator where
it's for every artist.
Let's say every artist has
its own color hue.
I'm picturing kind of the
sphere that's different
colors blending of percentages.
And based on that, you're calculating like,
okay, well...
The AI was trained and for
the production of this song
used these elements so
these people are paid out.
That is a very, very interesting idea.
I love this.
Yeah, exactly.
And that's like trying to
embrace the tech instead of
get mad and fight it.
I think conversations like this, you know,
there's times that I wish I
was a tech guy, really push these ideas.
Yeah.
But I think that in any
industry that gets disrupt,
but you're still working in it.
And I think that's what Sam
Altman is kind of hinting
at when he's kind of
pushing this universal income thing.
Because I think he knows
more than we can ever
imagine how it's going to
change and impact the world.
i think like if that were
the case I could still
create because I know that
if people like my music and
it's and they want to
create something that
sounds like it they're
going to use my name in the
prompt or a song in the
prompt and I'll get my
royalty regardless wow I
feel like I have to stop
making music yeah yeah no
this is this is super
interesting I uh and I and this is such a
it's oh my god I love this
idea I love that this came
so early too because I feel
like this is something I
would want to talk to other
creatives because I i also
want to talk to people who
make arts like draw and
stuff and in the idea where
it's like because we've
seen it we have the data
and all these different
sites that make content and
the ai uses a percentage of
their art in its creation of the image
similarly to the music and
you pay out royalties based
on the percentages like you
were saying then it allows
artists to still want to
create because one of the
things that I came across
when I was at the
convention and I kind of
started talking to people
about this stuff was some
people were concerned there oh well if
If I'm creating,
what's the point if they're
going to be able to steal
all my stuff and just
create based off of the prompt using,
you know, please draw like this.
John Sterling,
please draw like Frank Miller.
And then, hey, those artists,
I'm talking mostly comic
books because for those of you who know,
I'm a huge comic book geek.
But.
That kind of idea of the
next generation losing
their interest because
there's a fear that there
will be nothing for them to
create because everything
will be able to be created.
Well, then no,
because if this next kid
comes along and has a
unique style because they
learned from this,
but they adapted something
or similarly to you with
music or anyone that learned,
like I always call it the
coaching tree where it's like,
Someone was,
and the example I used for the
coaching tree is Jon
Stewart for The Daily Show.
Jon Stewart for The Daily
Show had his unique style,
but created like a Hasan Minhaj,
created a Larry Wilmore,
created a Samantha Bee,
and all these different
people have their own unique styles,
but based off of that style,
Jon Stewart style daily show.
And this is where we would
have a beat child kind of
like tree where the,
the branches all have their
unique styles from learning
from your music or Frank
Miller with art or I'm
trying to think of other art styles.
Cause there's more than just
painting and music, but for all this,
there's voiceover actors,
voiceover actors, you know what I mean?
Like, or, or even, even actors,
even actors, like,
Oh, my God.
Yeah.
Anything that AI has to train on.
Yeah.
To produce.
Yes.
There needs to be a separate
entity that regulates that whole thing,
right?
Because to me,
that's... I'm in awe of the idea of... No,
but it's true.
If AI actors, if you say,
I want 10% Nick Cage, 20% Bruce Willis,
and then it creates this
kind of performance based
on those elements...
it's just like yeah but you
got to pay these people
like that's such a great
idea yeah yeah because
they're still gonna there's
still gonna be money at the
end of the day there's
gonna be profit somewhere
yes right um and not only
is it gonna be profit
there's gonna be more
profit because expenses
yeah lower yeah expenses
are much lower yeah and um
there it actually also benefits the tech
Because there's this paradox,
I forget what it's called,
but AI can't train on AI.
Right.
That's what I was thinking.
It eventually will run out
of what it can do with... Yeah.
Yeah.
It implodes on itself.
I saw an image generator
trying to train on...
Generated images?
Yeah.
And when it popped out,
it's like creepy and weird.
It just can't do it.
Right.
There's a name for it, too.
It's a problem in tech that
they are in AI that they're
trying to sort of called.
Of course, they're trying to get rid of it,
too.
I know, I know.
I just asked, okay,
so it says the paradox
you're referring to is
known as the AI alignment problem.
Or more specifically in this context,
it can be related to AI
degradation problem.
So the issue arises when AI
systems are trained on data
generated by other AI systems,
potentially leading to a
degradation in the quality
and accuracy of the AI models over time,
which makes sense.
The primary concern is that
without sufficient human generated data,
the AI may begin to amplify errors,
biases,
and noise present in the AI
generated data,
leading to a decline in
overall performance, reliability,
So this is another term that
can be related is the
synthetic data feedback loop,
which describes the
potential for compounding
errors when AI systems are
trained primarily on
synthetic data produced by
other AI systems rather
than diverse and high
quality real world data.
So essentially AI is like humans,
where ideally you're going
outside of your own gene
pool as much as possible to
diversify the quality of
the genes and the traits
that can help you be.
It's so crazy,
it's so funny to think that
even when AI is there, it's just like,
don't mix within your family.
That's what it is.
It's so interesting.
Man, okay, I mean,
I know I want to talk for
like hours and hours on end,
but I know if I don't bring
us to a conclusion, it will.
So I'll ask you this.
Can you give me some final
thoughts on... Because
already you've given us such a very,
very interesting idea with
the kind of universal
tariff system for creatives.
Because one of the pitches I had,
which now feels childish in comparison,
was to put AI in the hands
of creatives as opposed to allowing...
corporations I guess well
almost what you're saying
still has creatives hands
in it because I imagine if
they were to build some
kind of body to oversee
this hopefully creatives
would have an input in it
so that the corporations
don't just say yes yes the
tariff is 0.0003 yeah yeah
like some others you know
absolutely it'd have to it
would have to be a like a
a non-profit or like a SOCAN, right?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And I would say
significantly higher
percentage than what some
of the other private
corporations that exist
right now that you might be
using to listen to this
podcast are paying creatives and artists.
Yeah, those are private.
See, those are, well, they're public.
companies, but they're corporations.
That's where it gets messy.
Your final thoughts, please.
My final thoughts are it's
an exciting time in AI and tech.
At the end of the day, it's a tool.
I can use a hammer to build
a house or I can use a
hammer to break into a house.
It's just a tool.
so and one that can't live
without us based on what
you just explained so there
you go that's a really
interesting point and yeah
so so I you know I try to
stay up to date with it I
try to use it as much as I
can um I think there's a
huge amount of potential
for it I think it's so
early too that we're not
even looking at it the
right way yeah you know
like when stereo um music
came out left and right
speakers producers and mix engineers
they were putting the drums
completely on the left side
and vocals on the right
side because they thought like, okay,
we have two speakers now, two channels.
Maybe this is like, yeah,
we might as well split them up.
But then they kind of like
figured it out and
understood that it's more
practical to balance things.
And I think that in AI,
we're there right now where
You know,
we're making these pins that you
wear and you push a button
and it bugs your phone.
We're still kind of in the
discovery phase of what it
actually is going to be used for.
Yeah.
Slakah.
Thank you so much.
My God,
this was such a fantastic conversation.
I enjoyed it.
Yeah.
Yeah, I really did.
I really,
really appreciate you taking the
time to talk with me.
This was fantastic.
Where, you know,
where can people find all your stuff?
What's the best way to find your content?
Yeah, so Instagram, it's beatchildmusic.
I'm also at beatchild.com.
And that's probably the best in TikTok,
Slakah the BeatChild.
Cool.
And those are the socials.
Follow me and yeah.
Perfect.
Guys, I'll be back with the sign-off.
And just like that,
you got to hear one of the
most interesting ideas I
have ever heard when it
comes to AI use and how we
can properly invest in our creatives.
In an industry where people
are starting to feel
concerned about what AI
would mean for art, his idea of
tariffs or percentages paid
out to people based on the
use of the ai and how it
was trained on their work
is very interesting and I
know some of you are going
to say but we don't even
want to get that far but
like we keep telling
everyone the genie is out
of the bottle and we have
to start looking at ways
for us to work with and not
against and I think some of
his ideas could really work
They could really, really work.
I didn't say this in the podcast,
but him and I spoke about it afterwards.
When CDs first came out,
they put tariffs on the cds
to pay out to artists cmrra
was collecting that in
canada to pay out to
artists a percentage of
every cd that was any any
burnable cds that you
bought went to them because
it was understood that with
those cds you could burn
music and I think that's
really important to
consider that if we're
going to move forward with
ai and you know
My original idea of putting
AI in the hands of the
creatives almost blends
with his pitch of having a
oversight body that
collects tariffs based on
percentages for the
creatives and how those
creatives work was used in
training the AI.
It's very interesting.
So hopefully you enjoyed that episode.
We'll be back with another one soon.
I'm out, everybody.
Peace.
The Dumbest Timeline, Series 2, AI,
hosted by Brian Holidae.
Produced by Brian Holidae
for Brian Holidae Productions.
Co-produced in partnership
with Free X Agents Media.
Theme song by Jasper Q Jonze.
Mixing by Brian Holidae.
Enjoyed the show?
Follow this show on Spotify
or review it on Apple Podcasts.
Lastly,
subscribe to The Dumbest Timeline
on your favorite podcast app.
Thanks for listening.
It's funny you brought that up,
and I almost should have said it before.
It's something that they did with the CDs.
Because remember when CDs
came out and you could burn a CD,
there was a percentage.
Yes, exactly.
The CMRRA was a Canadian body
that paid off.
Yeah, exactly right.
Yeah.
And the thing is,
there's so much more money in tech.
Yeah.
Because think of it.
And this not only encourages
artists to create art,
it encourages these companies to continue
advancing their tech.